Joscha Bach: Nature of Reality, Dreams, and Consciousness | Lex Fridman Podcast #212

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Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist, AI researcher, and philosopher. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
– Coinbase: https://coinbase.com/lex to get $5 in free Bitcoin
– Codecademy: https://codecademy.com and use code LEX to get 15% off
– Linode: https://linode.com/lex to get $100 free credit
– NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour
– ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free

EPISODE LINKS:
Joscha’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Plinz
Joscha’s Website: http://bach.ai

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 – Introduction
0:33 – Life is hard
2:56 – Consciousness
9:42 – What is life?
19:51 – Free will
33:56 – Simulation
36:06 – Base layer of reality
51:42 – Boston Dynamics
1:00:01 – Engineering consciousness
1:10:30 – Suffering
1:19:24 – Postmodernism
1:23:43 – Psychedelics
1:36:57 – GPT-3
1:45:40 – GPT-4
1:52:05 – OpenAI Codex
1:54:20 – Humans vs AI: Who is more dangerous?
2:11:04 – Hitler
2:16:01 – Autonomous weapon systems
2:23:29 – Mark Zuckerberg
2:29:04 – Love
2:43:18 – Michael Malice and anarchism
3:00:15 – Love
3:04:23 – Advice for young people
3:09:00 – Meaning of life

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Comments

Lex Fridman says:

Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 – Introduction & sponsor mentions:
– Coinbase: https://coinbase.com/lex to get $5 in free Bitcoin
– Codecademy: https://codecademy.com and use code LEX to get 15% off
– Linode: https://linode.com/lex to get $100 free credit
– NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour
– ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free
0:33 – Life is hard
2:56 – Consciousness
9:42 – What is life?
19:51 – Free will
33:56 – Simulation
36:06 – Base layer of reality
51:42 – Boston Dynamics
1:00:01 – Engineering consciousness
1:10:30 – Suffering
1:19:24 – Postmodernism
1:23:43 – Psychedelics
1:36:57 – GPT-3
1:45:40 – GPT-4
1:52:05 – OpenAI Codex
1:54:20 – Humans vs AI: Who is more dangerous?
2:11:04 – Hitler
2:16:01 – Autonomous weapon systems
2:23:29 – Mark Zuckerberg
2:29:04 – Love
2:43:18 – Michael Malice and anarchism
3:00:15 – Love
3:04:23 – Advice for young people
3:09:00 – Meaning of life

Matt Graves says:

Free will is basically about 'The Model' . Your model.
You have free will in that you can train the model, but not without effort… the model reacts to the environment the way that it is trained to and it will always do so… we can predict it when we 'step outside' and objectively and honesty assess the model's performance.

I would add,
Psychedelics are interesting and can be very useful in training the model.

He describes very well however, the dangers and unfortunate consequence many folks have had as a result of over use of psychedelics.
I have used them, but don't regularly.
I prefer to train by excercising…living through uncomfortable situations.

Levi Wekesa says:

This guy is Fire 🔥

Jascha says:

Any book recommendations for those who love all of Joscha's podcasts? (Except for Joscha's own book)

chewyjello1 says:

I've gotta say, as someone who works within the healthcare system…there is optimism and there is being naive. Lex is just naive on this.

chewyjello1 says:

I would LOVE to hear a conversation between Bach and Bernardo Kastrup. Bach insists only a simulation can be conscious and Kastrup strongly believes consciousness cannot be simulated. They both are brilliant and present their arguments in new and fascinating ways. I tend to lean toward Kastrup in these arguments but Bach gives me strong pause. Maybe the difference is semantic and what Kastrup refers to as "mental" is the same thing Bach refers to as the perceptual language of a simulation?

chewyjello1 says:

I don't think Hoffman says it's an evolutionary advantage for our senses to not be predictive of reality…but that it's an evolutionary advantage for our senses to correlate with reality in the same fashion that what happens on a computer screen correlates with what's going on inside the computer.

Krzysiek Mazanek says:

Goddmn, i listen to this guy in background of coding now. I need transcript analized, SLOWLY to begin to decode this. Couple hundred of guy like this and we have Weiland Youtani androids or more. Or we are ants… "Complex stories within stories driving behaviour" well I want that inverse kinematic software also at some point.

ha D saadat says:

This is the first time I see an attitude or kind of jealousy in lex behavior encountering someone more smart and intelligent than himself that isn't pleasant, knowledge supposed to make you humble if it makes you arrogant you feel no more needs for learning and your arrogance won't accept being dump in front of other smart people

freitas209 says:

why iisnt their any one disputing what hes saying in the comments

john-carlos ynostroza says:

This guy is clearly bunkers brainy but he misuses I and me over and over and it's driving me nuts. It's like listening to Stevie Wonder play miraculous music but hit a crap note every few bars😐

B says:

This is a good one to play on long car rides with friends and pretend you've never heard it and just happen to think the same thing as Joscha

Curtis O says:

When Soborno Isaac Bari is a little
bit older, he and Joscha should have a convo.

Matthew Matthewson says:

Every time Joscha talks I feel in my heart it's utterly true and profound, but am struck with such existential dread as a result. Halp.

MattTree says:

Can't use 2x watching speed for this one

Lou RahKneeRi0 says:

When Miyazaki enters the conversation…

uncle martha says:

0.75x playback speed is a help I find when listening to this Joscha Bach fella! 😅

Sealed Wings says:

I can't help to thinking that Bach has his ideas very clear, but in these conversations he can only explain rather than to engage in a debate of ideas. Fo rexample, when Lex was trying to question him on Free Will, Bach failed to see this point and kept only reflecting on how what we experience is just a "simulation", rather to focus on the agency of the experienc-er.

john-carlos ynostroza says:

I cannot believe I missed this and just found it! His perseverance was my favorite show Lex has ever done. Oh my gosh, going to be a late night! This dude literally blew my mind like 75 times in 3 hours last show

cultured ape says:

Only an adult German could call jungle book disgusting and talk about esthetic. By the way based on Kipling.

Graham Hart says:

Why does he struggle so hard to grasp that the elephant is our body…

Cash & Cultura says:

All I got from this is that this shit we live ain’t real. Cool 😎

Dustin Bailey says:

Been trying to get threw this podcast for the last 2 mo

mm says:

lex seems not to be able to understand the concepts of consciousness as explained by sam harris in a previous podcast, also has some issues with understanding lack of free will being coexistant with "voluntary" and "involuntary" actions.

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